The Problem With Being Too Resilient - Dr. Jenny Susser

So I typically kick the episodes off by having the guest tell us who they are and what it is they do. Sure. My name is Jenny Sutzer and I am technically a clinical sports psychologist, so I am a shrink. My joke is I like to call myself a stretch. So I’m licensed as a clinical psychologist and practice sport and performance psychology about the elevator speech.

How did you get one, involved in sports psychology and two, how did you find yourself in this equestrian world? I got involved in sports psychology because I was I was a athlete. I swam at UCLA and struggled with my mental game. So back then, sports psychology was barely a thing. And really that sort of coaching was suck it up, shut up, dig deep, which was OK, like all those things are appropriate at certain times, but I just didn’t have a way of connecting with my confidence so that I could actually perform as well as I thought that I should have been performing.

So when I was coaching, we started working with a sports psychologist and I thought, that’s it, that’s it. I wanted, I want to do that and be that. So I went back to school for 100 years and my PhD, got licensed and became a psychologist. And again back then there wasn’t much in terms of sports psychology. So I had to find my own way in sport, which I did.

And it was great. Had a lot of great experiences and early work and I got into equestrian work by accident. It was really lead to graceful. We can blame her and I met her at one of her D for K events. I went as a participant to learn something and wound up chatting with her.

She said this would be really cool, could you come talk to the kids? And I thought, sure, why not? And then you know how those things happen. It’s so fascinating because I feel like sports psychology, like I remember when you would talk to adults as a kid and if anyone mentioned a therapist, the first word that popped up was, oh, she saw a shrink. And I remember when I started working with a sports psychologist and I made a big point that I wanted to work with someone who wasn’t working with necessarily people that weren’t.

There are lots of people who seek therapy to work through personal problems versus I had this external problem that I was figuring came from something within me. And I was like, how do I approach this? And I think having someone who was a high performer or striving for high performance just makes such a big difference in the way you can connect with them. And yeah, so I find it’s such a funny conversation because people will make a big deal to differentiate, oh, I work with a sports psychologist versus yeah, I see a therapist. And I agree with that.

In the early days of my career, having the word sport in front of psychologist opened 100 times the doors because that stigma really was lessened by being a sports psychologist or a performance psychologist. Since we’ve had some very high profile athletes work with psychology and psychologists, being honest and open and vulnerable about their mental health struggles. Their stigma is changing rapidly, which I think is fantastic. The more we learn about the brain and neuroscience and neuropsychology and biology, that more access we have to being better psychologist. For a long time, psychology was like, what would Freud say?

And while all of that is informative and valuable, now we have a whole new batch of information that we can use to make psychology more powerful. So one of the reasons I wanted to chat was your idea of this resilience not being enough. And I think in today’s culture, I don’t know if it’s necessarily social media or if it’s just America and America’s always been this way, but there’s a huge hassle culture and you’re never working hard enough and burnout isn’t real. And this that and the other thing. And I think it just makes people sometimes feel like they then can’t talk about the things that they’re struggling with.

Yeah. So I feel like specifically an equestrian sports, resilience is used so often because you could be working so hard and your horse steps on a stone and all of a sudden all that hard work doesn’t really matter. And that’s just you’re always overcoming and you’re always dealing with things. So I just wanted to talk about, one, what is resilience? And two, why should we not only rely on resilience?

Good questions. OK, So resilient has been a pretty hot word, especially in American culture for the last decade. I’ve done performance psychology in both their sport and corporate worlds. And the corporate world, I like to say, grabs psychological terms or technologies and I call it bastardizing it, right? They grab a word like stress or resilience or energy or performance and they try to turn, they try to monetize it, right.

How do we monetize a word like resilience? Let’s just make sure that everybody needs to be resilient. And, and while resilience is an important factor, it’s, like I said, it’s not the only one. Every tool that you have, every skill that you have isn’t your only tool and it isn’t your only skill. So it’s a look at resilience as something like your only tool or your only go to.

Again, it wouldn’t matter whether it was resilience, whether it was an energy drink, whether it was a song, a favorite song, a person, whatever. It is like you need more than one skill to get you through life, especially a high performing life. When I was doing corporate work and I was working for a corporate training company, they asked me to write a course on resilience. This is over 10 years ago. This is probably 12 years ago.

11 or 12 years ago, I was writing this corporate training program about resilience. Being the kind of thinker that I am, I love to understand the origin. So I looked at the origin of the word resilience and the term it was really a psychological term that was generated from studying adults who were survivors and childhood trauma. And the trauma could be anything from fire, loss, abuse. It wasn’t a particular kind of trauma.

It was just childhood trauma, poverty, earthquake, all kind of, they looked a lot of different factors that we could label as a traumatic childhood. Trauma has become one of those words that we are now really heavily using. You don’t ever want to lessen what anybody feels about what’s happened to them, but trauma has a lot of different ways to think about from the psychological perspective, thinking about trauma, childhood trauma, what they looked at to develop this term of resilience was what helped adults who were survivors of childhood trauma, what helped them survive successfully versus those who didn’t survive successfully. And they gathered together through their research a bunch of different factors or personality characteristics or skill sets, and they labeled those as resilience. So if you had a successful experience digging yourself out and working through or surviving successfully a childhood trauma, they considered you to have a level of resilience.

Cool thing was that they discovered they could teach those factors so you can teach resilient skill sets. And they have been for decades in the corporate world, resilience ended up being this ability to bounce back. And so that was the original place where we started in the corporate world was your resilience is your ability to bounce back. How well can you bounce back from exhaustion and from defeat, from failure, from success, from transitioning from job to job or whatever it was? As I made my travels and my way through the corporate world, I would discover that I would go in to teach these resilience workshops and people would roll their eyes and be like, great.

And a common theme was great. You’re here to suck even more work out of me and I’m already exhausted. And that was really where resilience went for a while. From a good five to seven years in the corporate world was resilience trainings were either about reducing stress, which is not possible. So how do you reduce?

I could go, and I did this for years and my corporate training, I’d start off the day and go, who here expects to have less stress this year than last year? And people would just laugh. So if you’re advancing in your career and chasing a bigger dream or bigger goal, you’re going to have an increasing level of stress. The idea is how do you offset that stress with something that helps you not only navigate the stress, but performing compete successfully under that increasing level of stress while not killing yourself. Yeah.

And so to me, performance lives on top of well-being. And if you are sacrificing your well-being for your performance, you’re doing something wrong or you’re missing something and saying just be resilient. Just suck it up. Just get up and keep going. Stay on the hamster whale.

And more is better and faster is better than all of those. And we can all say those and we all have, but it’s really our cultural conversation. But that’s how we do things, especially in the horse world. Oh my God, the horse world is be worst. And it’s just gets worse since we’re 24/7 and anyone listening to this is either in their car or on their horse.

Or and. Going, I have a horse farm, I know what it is. So it’s so my idea, as I saw the failure of my resilience course really was, OK, what is it? If it’s not resilience, how are we? What’s the answer?

And it’s really this balancing of how much energy you spend with how much energy can you replenish, restore, recover. And that was really, I learned that from my mentor, Doctor Jim Lehrer at the Human Performance Institute. And I always give a nod to him because he was really the first person to teach me about that. And when we think about our energy, our human energy, that is what keeps us going. That is what keeps us safe.

That’s really our source of our performance is the quality and the quantity of our energy. So I started really digging deep into that and thinking, OK, what is it and everything that he taught me? And it’s really about offsetting the impact of stress, like how much stress you are experiencing with recovery and restoring the energy that you spent. We can think about it in a couple different ways. We can think about it like a bank account, or my favorite is to think about it like a fuel gauge on an automobile.

So whether you have gasoline, diesel or electric car, you still have a fuel gauge. And so your battery is either full or empty, your fuel tank is either full or empty or somewhere in between. And if we think about it like that, you could never drive your vehicle without replenishing its energy, whether it’s Guthrie or electricity. But humans are so damn resilient that we can keep going. It’s a shame we’re free to plug my Ted talk.

It was called how your resilience is trying to kill you because we can keep going and going and going. I don’t know how old you are. I’m 58 and I have man, my resilience and my ability to keep going and my stuck it up toughness factor from having been a swimmer and now an equestrian is super high, which all equestrians have. And we can just keep going, but we hurt ourselves in the process. But you don’t really realize it until you’re a little bit too far down that path.

Yeah, yeah. No, I remember realizing the impact stress had on me when I got pretty lucky early on in my career. I’m 27 now, but like, when I was 23, I had owners and a barn, and it just was like this fairy tale. And I remember I didn’t get sick one time, like, one time. And as things do in the horse world, the owners didn’t want horses anymore.

The barn went up for sale. Things happened and I end up in another situation, which wasn’t inherently bad, but it created a change in dynamic and all of a sudden I’m working way different than way harder. And I all of a sudden I’m getting sick all the time. And I remember being like, oh, I think I’m the problem because like I’m not really around people all that much, so there’s not really a reason I should be getting sick. I don’t really travel.

It was at a time when I wasn’t really competing. So I’m like, the stress was just different than what you know. And I go, oh, this isn’t necessarily sustainable. And what do I do? I double down and do it 10 times harder because I’m like, I’m just the problem.

But that’s just how equestrians are. Like, you talk to someone and they go, yeah, the same thing happened two years ago, and they’re still recovering from it. You go, oh, my God, I’m screwed. And then you’re just stuck in that loop of I almost feel like you almost then can’t see opportunity and you can’t see things because your head is just so deep in the sand just trying to dig your way out of this thing that you don’t even know what you’re digging towards. It’s really hard aren’t because horses are 24/7, because of the way we keep courses and manage horses, especially in the United States and especially in the English disciplines, it’s really hard to ever get either ahead or back up to baseline.

And so we all have a tipping point and at some point we all chip in some way, shape or form. Our horses do too. A lot of chronic diseases or horses that we could really liken to a lot of the chronic diseases we have in humans. So when I was studying resilience and trying to sort through a lot of this stuff, the CDC, our Centers for Disease Control, every year evaluates and publishes a list of the top five or actually the top whatever causes of death. And for the last 30 years, they’re all the same, heart disease, cerebral vascular disease like stroke, diabetes, accidents and cancer.

Heart disease is number one for 30 years, whether you’re male or female, like across the board heart disease. And when you look at what chronic stress does, just even our vascular system. So just, for instance, high blood pressure, the chronicity of high blood pressure and the constant pushing of more and more blood through our vessels over time weakens the vessels. So we’ve all had hoses burst at the barn and flood at the barn, or they washed all overnight or something like that, right? But you push through chronically.

The weaker the vessels become, the harder you have to push to get it through, and the harder you have to push to get it through, the weaker they become. So it’s this whole circle. They’re so vicious cycle, right? And so heart disease becomes this tipping point where we’ve pushed ourselves so far for so long that we’ve weakened our internal structures. And when we become upset, our heart rate goes up.

When we become scared, our heart rate goes up. When we become worried, our heart rate goes up. When we become threatened, our heart rate goes up. So and when we’re exhausted, our heart rate goes up. Like all of these things.

It’s just one example. Yeah, of the way that we are so hard on our system, but then we just take a medicine to lower our heart rate or we have a stent put in or we had. There’s all kinds of ways to stave off the inevitable, which I agree with completely. But how do we get back to some of the source, the sort of repair part of that path that got us here? And that’s where the problem is, especially in equestrian because our model is really tough.

Horses are really expensive. Money lives in a very small pocket of the equestrian community and typically not in the trainers or the barn owners or the barn managers that doesn’t live there. Time off is a luxury scarce. Yeah. You can be doing your damnedest to get some rest and then your horse serves and guess what?

I’ve changed your mind for you. It’s problematic for us, right? We’re understaffed, we’re under funded, we’re under recovered and we’re overstressed. So it’s can we navigate this in a way that makes more and more sense? That’s really what I’ve seen for my 20 years in the horse world and experience myself as a barn owner.

So how do equestrians? Because it even is like the corporate amateurs. They take a few days off and like they’re going to a horse show. Like it’s a luxury to do it. And so because it’s a luxury to do it, you feel you’re almost trapped to do it.

Maybe not in that sense of like you’re actually trapped, but like mentally we put ourselves in that position. So how do we like one, hopefully before we hit the zone of like, absolutely, dunzo, can we Like, what do we do? Yeah, What do we do to hopefully prevent that? And then if we realize, oh shit, I’m actually past that point, like, what can you do? OK, so there’s a couple of things to think about.

So I’m going to go back to my automobile analogy or metaphor, whichever folks, if we go with the gas tank, when you think about your gas tank in your car. So let’s talk about a diesel truck because most the questions can relate to a diesel truck. If you were getting ready to go to a horse show, of course you would fill it up. You would check the oil, check the tires, hook it up to the trailer, be ready to go. And you know when you’re towing that you’re going to get lower gas mileage than when you’re not towing, so.

Right. There is a difference in energy expenditure. So a horse show, whether you’re a trainer, an adult amateur, a professional is going to take more energy from you than just riding a help. So that’s one of the first things we think about is performance, competition, execution, clinic, all of those things. They take more energy, so we’re going to have to replenish that energy more frequently.

That’s one thing that people don’t really consider. They come home from a horseshoe and they’re exhausted and they can’t quite figure out why. Or they get ready and they go to a horse show and they arrive at the horse show grounds with an empty gas tank and they can’t understand why they can’t perform the way they do at home. There’s you want to think about before, during and after for just going with the horseshoe. So like you want to get to the horseshoe, you want to think about getting ready to perform or compete or clinic or whatever it is so that you go into that with a little more energy in the tank then you would if you weren’t towing, right?

If I’m towing to a horse show that’s 200 miles away, you know, then I’m going to need a certain amount of gas for that. I’m not going to show up with an empty tank, but I might not need a completely full tank if I’m going to one that’s 50 miles away. So it’s very relative, right? So you want to think about what creates a fuller tank for this is completely individual. And for some people, there are some things that really make them feel energized and for some people that would make them feel exhausted.

You want to begin to think about your energy on a daily, even a weekly basis, like your gas tank. Like when do I need energy and how much do I need? So when I started learning about energy management, I would look at my calendar every day and I would think, OK, well, to do today and now how much energy and what kind of energy do I need for each of those items on my To Do List? So me looking at my calendar today, I’ve had three client calls before this call, before taping this podcast with you. When I was scheduling for today, this has been on my schedule for a couple of weeks.

I looked and I thought, OK, I need some recovery and downtime between my client calls and talking with Samantha. So I scheduled that and I blocked that, and I protected that. Yeah, I did my what I need to do to rest and recover. I ate something. I drank something.

I relaxed so that I can resell my tea so that while we’re having this conversation, I have the best energy I could have to bring to this. So I’m not sacrificing my well-being for this performance because when we’re finished, I have other things to do. So you think before, during, and after when you’re thinking about energy. And I try to think about my energy across every week because thinking about energy, I think about my energy on a daily basis. Whenever a week I can rest enough, I can sleep enough, I can eat enough, I can exercise enough, I can hang out enough, I can ride enough, I can relax.

And if I can socialize enough over the course of any week, and then you build in those times where you know it’s going to be a hard awake or sometimes it ends up being a hard awake. And then I try not to be on empty ever. Is this making some sense? Yeah. And.

It’s probably just a skill that you’ve developed being able to do it of not even allowing yourself to get to a day. Yeah. And it takes, man, does it take some effort at the beginning, which is problematic, right. So to spend more energy when you’re learning how to manage your energy, which makes it feel like it’s worse at first. So you kind of just hang in there.

One of the things that I have seen over and over again is that people just don’t hang in there long enough to expect change. Yeah, nice to hang in there until you get to the other side of people get up right before they get through and they don’t give themselves enough time. They don’t have enough patients. They don’t wait it out. Like even with like I talked about box breathing a lot.

It’s one of my favorite on the spot regulators for Physiology. When you regulate your Physiology through breath work, it helps calm your nervous system. It helps return blood flow to your frontal lobe. It helps you think, it helps you perform ground. All of this things that when we become elevated, threatened, scared, nervous, under pressure happened to us, right?

The first things that when we experience threat or pressure, we deregulate, we dysregulate our nervous system because we go into the survival threat mode. Breathing is one of the greatest, easiest, lowest hanging to get yourself back to that. And so when I teach people blocked breathing, that’s 44444 seconds. You count to 4 as an inhale. You hold your inhalation for four seconds, you exhale to the count of four, and then you hold the exhalation to the count of four.

So 16 seconds, 4 rounds of box breathing is like a whole, Oh my God, minute. But really you need to do 3 minutes. Thirty minutes is like the bare minimum to recover blood flow to your frontal lobe to really get your nervous system to say, OK, it’s not a Saber tooth tiger in the tree, but this is for times when it’s not. And you’ve got to teach yourself how to get yourself back to whatever that baseline level is for that level of performance, execution, competition, or emergency. You got to get your how to get your head back in the game, whatever that game is.

But doing one round of box breathing in 16 seconds and expecting yourself to feel recovered is ridiculous for anyone. Yeah. And that’s the biggest thing I’ve signed is that people don’t, they don’t stick with it long enough. You know, like I asked some people like, OK, how long have you been riding? Years.

OK. And so when you started riding and you weren’t good in the 1st 16 seconds, did you give up? And they laughed just like you did, right? And thank God. It’s ridiculous.

Is it? And it’s hard because we’re busy and time feels like there’s never enough of it. But the coolest thing is, the better you get at recovering your energy, the more efficient you become. When we are tired, exhausted, low energy, had enough to eat, haven’t had enough to drink, haven’t had enough rest, or if you’re in the corporate world, haven’t had enough movement, all those things become stagnant or stuck. You don’t think you’re best, you don’t have your best brain available and you’re going to make mistakes and it’s going to take you longer.

You want to take a little bit longer to get there and do it right, or do it wrong and then have to fix it on the back end anytime. I talk to other professionals and they’re experiencing burnout or something. I always tell them to actually start scheduling and I was like, don’t schedule like day of. I’m like schedule your week because you like realize I there’s an exercise that I do because I’m one of those people and I blame it on Pony Club that I’m super time sensitive. And.

Especially I notice it in the winter when I’m dealing with daylight savings and shorter days that I rush through everything even if I’m not rushing. Like my mindset is rushing because I feel like I’m running out of time. I’m running out of daylight. And so I’ll do this exercise where I put down 24 hours or if I’m doing the week like 168 or however much it is. And I do how much time am I dedicating to everything?

And then I can see how much time I actually have left. And it’s always more than you think it is. And that’s including if I’m sleeping 8 hours and you go, Oh my God, I can actually sleep 8 hours. And so it’s but I go back to because you made a comment that they just people just don’t stick with things long enough. And I call it like this is just they’re training people and watching people and but it’s that they need to keep it in their conscious until it becomes subconscious.

And so many people are like, Oh my God, it just feels like adding another thing. But if you just hang in there long enough, it just you don’t even think about it anymore. In some cases you that happens sorry about the dogs. So there is a point where some things can become automatic, subconscious, automatic kind of the and I find with energy, whether it’s being conscious of spending it or restoring it, I have not found that ever become completely automatic. I have found that we have to stay pretty focused and pretty aware and keep tabs on it every day because it it’s so much easier.

We’ve for so many years been unaware, unconscious and not paying attention to how we spend or most importantly store our energy. That is the easier unconscious bit, and I’ve been doing this for over 15 years and I still have to pay pretty hard attention to making sure that I get enough rest, recovery, replenish and all. Whatever the word you want to use that feels good for you. I’ve not found that to become automatic. Think that spending energy is automatic.

Doing stuff is automatic. We’re raised on that. That’s our diet as we’re raised. So be careful not to think, OK, I did it a couple of times. I’ll just do it naturally.

I’ve not found that we do. I’ve found that we really have to figure out. And then you really one of the things to really figure out is what are like 2345 things that really help you replenish or recover, restore and refuel yourself from all different perspectives, body, mind and spirit. So we have different kinds of energy. We have our physical energy, we have our mental energy.

You sit all day learning something. You go to a clinic, you take copious notes, you’re watching. It’s really exciting. You don’t move your body except for at lunch and to go to the bathroom. And all you’ve done is think and take notes all day.

And you go home and you’re more exhausted than a day of working at the barn because we forget that mental energy is also a high consumer. And so you got to figure out like, how do I, what are my best ways of restoring energy? And one of the spoiler alerts is that it’s not always passive. So there’s passive restoring and refueling of energy. That would be like sitting on the couch or sitting on the back porch or hanging out or watching TV or taking a nap, sitting and listening to music.

But then there’s also active recovery, which is going for a walk or doing yoga or exercising or going out with friends or going to see your horse or riding your horse. One of the key components. So you figuring out how do you restore and recover your energy is intention. And we do so many things that are mindless. So I live on another horse farm.

I live on my horse property. And when I go from the house to the barn, I have created a habit of really breathing, grounding and taking it my land. Like I live on a beautiful piece of property of where I live and there’s a beauty all around. And so for me, I set my tone of going to the barn by taking in beauty because for me, nature is really refueling and it’s one of my go TOS. And so I’m walking over to the barn or whatever I’m doing, and I’m like, OK, I’m going to just gather up some energy as I go to the barn because who knows what I’m kind of fucking when I get there.

We all know that story. Yeah. So there’s also when I’m walking home from the barn, then it’s OK, I gathered some energy. I spent some energy at the barn and now what am I going to do to replenish my energy before I get home or plan to when I get something like that? Like it’s there’s a beginning, a middle and an end to the story.

And so knowing that and thinking about all three pieces, but then also figuring out what is it that really gives you energy. And there are days, like one day a month, I hibernate, I go horizontal, I turn my phone off. I don’t. And I’m like, don’t talk to me, don’t look at me, don’t think about me, Don’t bother me. I’m not moving.

I’m not taking a shower, and I’m gonna eat popcorn. I lay on the couch all day. And I need that like once a month. That’s my big refuel. But then during the week, there’s other ones.

And so this tracking, am I OK? It always feels like there’s too much to say for sure. And it’s such a big topic because intention is actually one of those things that I’ve recently really realized. Like when I became a professional, my relationship with horses really changed. I now viewed directly my results as a reflection of me and it made me understand.

Really. Yeah. No. And it is right. If you’re getting eliminated at every horse show, people probably have a right to be like, what’s going on with your training or whatever.

Now, if it’s a different problem every time, that’s different. But yeah, so I realized that I needed to change. Like my horses are my horses and I can do with them whatever I please, and that’s my fun thing. And then when I go and do clients, even though I’m still doing horses. That’s.

It’s just a different relationship and it it’s helped me become intentional when I’m working my forces because now it’s about being in the moment every day when I’m training them versus OK, this is what I have to do in order to be at this event. And I’m sure that works really well for some people to stay on track and have those boundaries. But for me, I just know I put so much pressure on myself and in turn on my forces, that when the training is good and I go, OK, yeah, let’s go to a competition that feels so much better than I got to get to this competition and we have to do these things. And if I don’t get a 25 in the dressage, I’m going to blow a gasket. I’m very lucky that I’m not in a relationship with someone who’s in horses.

So I come home and he’s I don’t really care. We can go give him some carrots. This is how my day one And you go, yeah, it’s not really that big of a deal, but becoming intentional with how I spend my time with my horses has changed everything for a little bit of the better and they become better. And so it’s a superpower to unlock being intentional. I think it really.

Is, and there’s actually a growing body of research on psychology around intention and how it impacts health, not just performance outcome, but health outcomes and cool chasing. It’s very powerful when you go into a conversation with the intention of providing something for somebody, making a difference, helping them out, you’re a different person than if you go into a conversation with the intention of chewing them out and making them feel bad. And it’s the same way with our energy. But we don’t have great intention around. I’m going to use this walk to the bathroom to give myself a break and let myself off the hook for the mistake I just got in trouble for at work.

Or I’m going to drive somewhere and instead of making 10 phone calls, I’m going to listen to something that I love that makes me feel better. I’m not going to talk to anyone to turn off my friend and pretend it’s dead and intentionally allow myself to recover. When we think about physiological recovery in terms of muscle growth, the science shows that the growth of the muscle happens in the repair and in the recovery stage. You don’t grow a bicep just doing bicep curls. You grow a bicep by putting the pressure on the bicep.

And then in the recovery, as the bicep is recovering from that pressure, those of you muscle fibers go, oh OK, I’m alive. I’m going to attach to these old ones because this feels good and have the moment to do that right? It’s really, it’s so magical, like the power of what it is to allow ourselves to recover, to give our courses those moments. That’s a whole other ball of wax trying to figure out how do we get our horses to be able to recover even during workouts and rides and training sessions because they need it too. They have a nervous system like we do.

They’re. Honestly, the only reason I have an interest in improving myself is because I go wow, I’m noticing all of this stuff with my horses and I’m the common denominator here. So let me figure that out for myself and see if it makes them better so they. That’s very awesome. Yeah, no.

They’re a great outlet. I also work with I’m a chestnut mayor person, so they really give it to you straight. But this has been. Such a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to to do this And how do.

People. Find you and follow you and all of that good stuff. I have a. Website it’s pretty simple. It’s just Doctor jenny.com, DRJ and ny.com.

It’s really simple. I have a Facebook page Doctor Jenny Power performance. I am in scrimped, but admittedly being Gen. X stuck in social media, that’s so your best bet is if you want to get in touch with me, shoot me an e-mail if that’s something that is of interest. I do work with people one-on-one and I don’t what level you ride.

I have people call me all the time, just an adult amateur and I’m like do you care about getting better? Yes. OK, great, then let’s get to work. And are you willing to invest the time? I’m not a one and done.

I’m not a tips and tricks. I’m a let’s figure out how to really create some skills that you can then have ownership of. Awesome. Thank you so much. For joining me, hey, thank.

You for inviting me. I really appreciate it. This is fun.