The Behavior Problem That's Actually a Tack Problem — Linda Hauck

Before we continue on launching something I’ve been working on for months, it’s called From Stiff to Supple in 28 Days, 6 audio lessons you can listen to while you ride, designed to systematically unlock your horse’s body and yours. Right now it’s in presale at 40% off. Code is automatically applied at checkout. Presale ends March 14th. Check the link in the description below.

I typically just kick the conversations off by having the guest tell us who they are and what it is they do. OK, I am Linda Hawk, the founder, owner, innovator at Tapestry Equine Products. I’ve been in the industry for over 40 years. I have my A level and Pony club. I competed for the Ontario Run young rider team way back in the 80s.

I went advanced back when we had steeplechase. Thoroughbreds are my specialty. I did train them at the racetrack for 10 years. I officiated. I was a technical delegate for eventing for 21 years and a coach Level 2, echoing Canada competition coach.

And yeah, my, my, my Forte as I went on in my career was developing the youngsters, especially those coming off the racetrack and getting them ready for their next careers. And then again, just a lifetime, thousands of hours of watching horses and looking at spurs, looking at Gers over the years. It’s like, you know what? And, And I also have a degree in wildlife biology, so, you know, animal behavior, anatomy. And I would look at the stuff that we were putting on them or wearing.

And in that regard, it was like the Prince of Wales Spur. Everybody thinks the Prince of Wales is really quite pine spur. Well, put it in your rib cage and you’ll think otherwise. And I just thought, you know what? There’s got to be better ways.

And so really, my ideas didn’t come from a boardroom, they came from being in the barn. Yeah, that was one of the cool things when I was sort of looking into you a bit. I was like, you have just touched so many different parts of the industry and it’s so cool to see. You know, I think most eventers at heart really love thoroughbreds, but you have a lot more hands on experience with them. You’ve kind of have seen them in their sort of native environment as well as the venting side of things.

So it’s it’s really cool to see just all of the different pieces of the industry that you’ve touched. And I got my be in pony club. So I’m a I’m a big pony club believer. And so how did you go from competing and riding to innovating products like that’s, I think we’ve all in the barn of them, like imagine if this was built or imagine if we had this, But I don’t know many people who have gone on to actually do it. So what did that journey sort of look like?

Well, that’s a great question, Sam. That actually spans quite a few years. So again, you know, my first product was this Persuader spur and back in the day when I thought, OK, I’m done with these quote UN quote kinder options, I thought, OK, because a lot of these race horses coming off the track are definitely sensitive. Some not so much. You can’t be you can’t be guaranteed that the worst is going to be incredibly forward moving coming off to the track.

It’s each individual themselves and as well as coaching amateurs, you know, you would put a Prince of whales or whatever kind of, you know, spur an amateur be wearing. And again, they don’t have the best lower leg they put they need, they swing the lower leg and they’d accidentally spur the horse and then they’d get the reaction, the ears back, the tail swishing and it was like, it’s totally understandable. So I come from a point of your horse is talking, you need to listen. And that might be changing tack. It might be, you know, changing feet, who knows?

And so it was funny because I was riding a 63 hand piano cat off the track. Boy, he was opinionated. And I just, I never would have put a traditional spur on him. But sometimes you just want that little bit more finesse. Move over a tiny bit, get over on the trail.

Or you know what, that owner’s force, you know, they’re leaning into that inside leg because they know it’s not very good. And I thought, if I’m a horse, and that’s how I always think of my products, if I’m a horse, what does it feel like? So, you know, I would poke myself with all the spurs and go, there’s poke and jabs. They’re telling the horse what to do. And I’m a Leo, so don’t tell me what I’m at it through the back door.

And you know, we’ll have a great conversation. But, and so I thought, OK, well, we’re irritating horses and we’re pissing them off and we’re not getting relaxation. So OK, it can’t be a poke and a jab. It needs to be more about pressure. And so in Canada, you know, because this was way back in 2008, I had the Weis Persuader design.

I thought, OK, we had a loonie at the time, which is our dollar coin. And I knew a gentleman that had a tool and die. And I said, do me a favor, can you make a spur? And I gave him the Prince of Wales. And I said, put the loonie on the end of it because I got to try it.

I have this idea. Can you just make me one? And I’ll tell you, it’s the most expensive pair of spurs on the planet. And I’ll never forget hopping on that 16 three hand thoroughbred. I thought, Royal, this is a big day.

Either you know, you’re going to buck me off or I don’t know. Anyways, so I started riding him, letting him warm up. And then I just quietly started using what became the persuader, the art of gentle persuasion. And Oh my God, like Sam, he moved over, went into the corners and his ears never moved. And again, they’re talking.

And I thought, OK, you’re not mad at me. You’re not angry, tense. And it’s like, Oh my God, this is exactly what I wanted. I wanted a product that would be more of in line with the partnership. And so then I thought, OK, that’s 1/2 of the equation.

Now the other half is putting it on these amateurs that don’t have a great lower leg. And so again, I had lots of amateurs at that time and I said, hey guys, I need you to wear the spur and I want to see how it acts. And you know, if you don’t use your leg correctly, what’s your horse going to do? And it was fantastic because you know, those horses that just needed that little bit more, they’re falling into the horse. The riders inside leg boy they’d.

Engage. That leg with this persuader horse would move over and no negative reaction. And for me that was like, OK, John, Linda, you know, let’s get these made and get them out on the market. Because again, Sam is, you know, a lot of this is education. People don’t know until you know, they don’t know what they don’t know.

And spurs are finesse aids. They shouldn’t be your primary go aid. And I do I’m I’m fortunate. I do travel around the world doing trade shows and I’ll talk to people about spurs and girls and whatever and they’ll go well, I don’t have a pair sharp enough or I just my horse just doesn’t want to move forward. So you know, for me, OK, what’s the equation?

What’s the breed? What’s the age? What are you asking it to do? What tack are you using? What bit are you using?

You and I know people can be using contradictory equipment on your horse. All this. They’ve got a a stop bit, but a go spur like which one is it? Right. And so a lot of this is education.

You know, honestly, I always felt as a rider, either I train you to be sensitive as a horse, so you’re going to train me to be busy as a rider. And the horse looks reluctant to move forward and checked all the other boxes. He was fine. Well, then he backs it up with a stick and just said come or go means go. So that was the evolution of this persuader and how it came to market and it’s gone worldwide.

English Webster new name it. Then in between was the neck strap because here in Canada you couldn’t find a show quality neck strap. And yeah. It’s very British, it’s very European. There seems to be a bit of an ego issue with riders in North America.

Oh my God, I’m too good for a neck strap. Oh, let me tell you, no, you’re not. And coming off of, you know, the thoroughbreds off the track, my God, man, I’d rather be looking at it than looking for it. Because what happens? What what happens when you get that amateur rider or an Olympic level rider and you know, you have that green horse moment or you have that rule, I’m feeling really good moment and that, you know, jump sideways.

What notoriously happened, Sam? Grab the mouth. Exactly. And have you just made that situation better? Right.

You haven’t created tension on the horse nor notoriously the riders out of position. Whereas if you’re wearing a neck strap, and mine is beautifully simple, it’s flush on the neck, it doesn’t have a handle. We’re not driving a car, kids. It’s there when you need it and it gives amateurs that much more confidence. As a coach, all my students wear one because I can say to them, get your hands up by that neck strap and you should be out to contact, not pulling to find contact.

And it’s just it’s there when you need it. So I have been on many, many hundreds of thoroughbreds off the racetrack. It’s beautiful to just have the rain single bridge and grab an extra. It’s like go do whatever you want to do. And so again with the next strap.

It was one of my daughter’s started pony club eventing and the very first barn I let somebody teach her at. They used stirp Leathers on all the horses now. But I brilliant because that’s my thinking, because you can go to any riding school and the riders are just bouncing around and nobody’s worried about the horse’s mouth. And I just so again, it fit into my philosophy of it’s just get off their mouth. You, you know, have proper contact.

But if you’re a beginner rider or you’re getting tossed about on the horse, protect their mouth isn’t. Yeah, exactly. And riding, not to cut in, but I love your perspective because riding is such a hard sport in the sense that we all have to make the mistakes in order to figure out how to ride the horse right. Like we all have to accidentally spur the horse too hard. We all have to accidentally fall back to find our balance.

And sometimes we catch the horse’s mouth. And it’s such a hard sport to try to get good at and get the finesse in when you’re also trying to not piss off the horse. And you know, I love that you’re not just trying to solve a problem of this horse isn’t going sideways because the leg is too thick of an object for them to feel that lighter pressure from or whatever riding problem you’re trying to solve. And in order for this person to get the feel they’re looking for, they still need this tool. But the tools we have available just aren’t suitable for the pair.

And but it’s not just as a professional, I’ve read in plenty of sensitive horses that I was like, Oh, I wish I had a spur or something like that where it wasn’t a spur, but it the thing that I’m looking for, and that’s why I find your product so cool is it’s great for the greenies, whether that be rider or horse. And it’s great for the horses that maybe don’t need that pokey proddy pressure or they so and also the neck strap. Like it’s funny because I grew up riding at a very traditional eventing barn and we did not use neck straps. And then I went to a work for a woman and every horse in her bond got ridden with a stirrup leather wrapped around their neck. And you know, she was adamant.

Like it didn’t matter if you were doing dressage, it didn’t matter if you were doing cross country. You rode with that neck strap for one of the reasons you mentioned of. It is so nice to have something where you can visually ride your hand too. Absolutely. I like her already.

I don’t even know who she, but no, Sam, you’re spot on. And so people got to get out of their own way and get rid of the ego. It’s there to make the partnership that much better. You and I, we can go to a horse show and watch how many people bury their hands at the front of the saddle, right? They’re constantly pulling to find the connection and then they go, I can’t understand why my worst won’t go forward.

Well, you’re in pull mode all the time. Yep. And then you’ve got to be kicking all the time. Like they go out. They really do have to have the understanding of, you know, I’ve always believed we teach, of course, three things.

Stop. That’s downward transitions and half halts. Go upward transitions length and stride and move over and. That’s it. And that’s all your lateral work.

Right shoulder, four, half past, whatever. Three simple things. Stop, go, move over. If the hand is saying stop, the leg is saying go. You wonder why your horse gets frustrated.

Like. Everything has to be coordinated and and that’s where I find the attention to detail. You have to understand what you what are you doing and why are you getting the result you’re getting. Yeah. And for you to be able to be objective about it, I think is the thing that allows you to develop products like this because you’re like sometimes horses or riders were teaching or whatever can exhibit A behavior.

And although we may not like the behavior, we may never actually question why the behavior is happening outside of maybe if they pin your ears when you put your leg back, you think, oh, they have ulcers or, you know, something like that. Versus maybe it’s something I’m doing that’s pissing off the horse, or maybe it’s the way I’m applying this aid that’s pissing off the horse. And so I just kind of admire how you were able to be like, OK, yeah, I kind of know this thing doesn’t have ulcers, or maybe it does have ulcers, but I don’t know that that’s why we’re getting this reaction or whatever. Maybe it’s the thing I’m using this tool, this type of pressure, and maybe I can change that. And that’s an interesting thought process.

We have to, as a questions, you have to become very good listeners and decipher if you rule out pain, if you rule out past experience to some extent. So, you know, a lot of race horses can come off the track and they’re easy peasy, couldn’t care less. But then you get some race horses come off the track and they find it very difficult to let go of associations. And that’s a fact of life, unfortunately. And you have to work with it.

And yeah, I can think of so many different horses that would come off and they would do something really peculiar and you go, OK, that’s because this is what you experience at the racetrack. I had a horse off the racetrack. Honestly, bless his soul. I can’t remember what he did at the track. He wouldn’t go through empty standards.

And I thought, OK, is this the starting gate for? You. Because I’ve broken horses out of the starting gate. You get like 8 inches each side of your. There’s a very little room in the starting gate.

And I thought, OK, is this a throwback? And so again, it just became, I didn’t, you don’t beat a horse through that. It’s like, OK, where do I think he’s gone? I think he’s gone back to the track starting gate. What am I going to do?

So hey, so and so can you come over and give me a hand, bring some treats, and I need you to just lead me through these empty standards. I would make them narrower and narrower to the point where he couldn’t care less and then make them wide again to the point where he couldn’t care less. But rather than, you know, discipline him and say, hey, hey, what are you doing? It’s like, OK, well, where have you gone? Right.

OK, let’s, let’s just reassure you that you’re going to OK, right. There’s lots of, lots of that always happens around. Horses are a prey animal. So you have to, you know, I’ve never gotten after spookers because they’re a prey animal. My degrees bothered by whole thing.

So as far as they’re concerned, there’s a Saber toothed tiger in those booty. And that’s why a neck strap is a great tool, because if you’re out and about, you’re out on a hack for a new time or it’s spring and Oh my God, right, Protect their mouth, protect yourself. They’re going to be a horse. Yeah. No, it’s, I know you have more products that I really want to talk about, but it just kind of popped up.

When you decided to go to school for wildlife biology, what were you did you expect to use it towards horses or did you kind of have another like life plan? That’s a great question. So I had a disruptor moment when I was 14. I grew up in Toronto, so that’s a big, big city. And a girlfriend of mine at the time in high school said, Hey, my mom has a horse too, want to come ride it.

And honestly, before, you know, before that my, my interaction with horses would have been farmed, you know, like the pony farms or whatever, you know, and all the kinds of animals. And I played, I, I was big into fastball at the time. And I went and I wrote this horse and I went, oh, my God, there’s a whole world out here. Nothing about, but I like it. And so it was that and I really refer to that as my disruptor moment.

And that projected me into the whole equine world. It I, there was a, a riding school in, in Toronto called Sunnybrook Park Central Dawn. That’s where I started. And I met girls there that said, hey, we found this other barn in the country, do you want to go do lessons there? And so I started at 14 and by the time I was 21, I’d been on the young Rider team and got my game.

So I took it pretty seriously. But kind of like there, there was a hockey player play for the Montreal Canadiens. His name was Ken Dryden, but he was a lawyer. Thought if I. Thought, you know what, I really want to be on the team one day.

But you know what? Horses being horses, just in case I get hurt, I better have something else to fall back on. And I knew it would be working with animals, right? Right. Whole life has been with animals and so that’s why I got the degree in wildlife biology because I thought, well, if the whole horse thing doesn’t work out, at least I have this degree I’d be quite happy to slide into.

So I’ve never used it in the traditional sense of working in a wildlife capacity. But no, the animal behavior, the nutritions, the anatomies, the physiologies, they’re all very relevant. All very relevant to working with animals and horses for obviously. Interesting yeah I I went to school for accounting and I’m like it it kind of helps me as a business owner, but I can’t couldn’t imagine ever sitting in an office being an accountant. So it’s always fun to what’s did you plan something or something else?

So let’s get back to talking about your products because you make a girth that is very interesting. So would you mind telling the listeners a little bit about what you were noticing with horses that led you to develop this product? So again, right, the idea came from the barn back in the day. Unfortunately, when you, because I came through the whole school horse program 40 / 40 years ago, you know, when you had string girths and the threefold girths and the ather stones, right? They weren’t comfortable girths.

They weren’t, they weren’t giving in any way. And most of your school ponies and horses back then, they bloat or they’d give you then, you know, the really negative eye or even go to kick in. And what were we told to do back then? You know, give them a nudge in the belly and tell them to behave not even thinking that, OK, well, they’re, they’re telling me right? They’re telling me how they feel.

So Fast forward, I just finally I had, I had a thoroughbred off the racetrack. His name was Magic and I had a beautiful leather girth with, with the elastic at the ends. But here in Ontario, you can’t make leather soft in the winter time. It’s plenty of at a barn the other day yesterday and you know, I was just feeling some of the leather girths and they’re bloody hard. There’s no, they’ve got ridges on them and sorry, it’s it’s cold in Canada.

So it is what it is. So and I remember putting, you know, I would bring the tack to the stall and he would right away go to the back of the stall, drop his head, his ears. And I went, OK, well, this hurts my heart now, right? Because you’re now you’re associating riding with something negative and would tack him up, take him into the indoor arena. And with a traditional girth, he wouldn’t move forward at the canner.

He just balked. And again, I’m not one that, you know, forcefully make that kind of thing happen. It’s like, OK, great, finally. OK, well, let’s just redesign the Gerson because you’re beautiful on a lunch line. You’ve got a custom fitted saddle and it’s this last piece of tack I put on you and it all it’s wrong.

So I took my so I thought to myself, it needs to be like a bra. It needs to be symmetrical because at the racetrack on race day we use a three inch elastic, but it’s a solid piece of elastic and there’s central. So to me that didn’t make sense and that’s why you’ve got to do up a race curve. So flipping tight you don’t want to move, but there’s no purchase to it. So I thought, OK, so I’m going to put a sternum pad and then have the elastic where from an anatomical point of view, well that’s where you can see it.

When you get off your horse and they take that nice big deep breath, you could see it happens down at the bottom. So I thought, OK, well that’s where the elastic needs to be. So I took it to a gentleman who did bespoke equipment, lovely harness and saddle maker and bridle maker. Beautiful guy, beautiful work. And as I’m telling Brian what I want, he goes, wow, Linda, I think you’re on to something.

And I said, well, I got to try it. I got to see what this horse does because as it is right now, I’m putting him out for the winter until I can make this freaking all. You know, this girl, soft beat. So anyways, again, another one of those moments where I went, oh, Kitty magic, I’m putting a new word on you. Fuck me off.

Or you could bolt on me like, I don’t know, because this is what I think it should feel like. And he never looked backwards. He just, we just were able to carry on from there. He obviously by his reaction went, OK, I don’t feel trapped. I can move, I can breathe.

It’s not stiff and rigid mentally. It took him three weeks to come around so that instead of going to the back of the stall, dropping his head, pinning his ears, he’d hear me come and he’d be waiting for me at the front of me. And as soon as I would open up the Dutch door, he would like, take a half a step out as if to say, come on, hurry up, let’s go. So again, this is what I love, Sam, the horses don’t lie. They don’t know the brand.

They don’t know the price point, but my God, they will tell you what they like and what they don’t like. Some of I’m going to say some of us are very good at listening and trying to decipher. And then some people, honestly, some people are so just unaware of what’s going on around them. And really we got to educate. Keep educating guys, because I have people come into my booth and I go, So what does your horse do when you tack it up?

Well, it wants to bite me and said, well, why do you think it’s biting you? Right. And we just have that conversation. So now I’ve planted the seed. So you go back now and you watch your horse when you’re attacking and all right, that’s what she said.

Oh, he’s bloating because he’s protecting the abdominal muscles there. Oh, he walks like a crab. Like pretend it’s a bra, kids, do you want to hide bra? I don’t quite confident our horses don’t either. Some are very stoic.

And that’s the sad thing about horses. They will get point and just go whatever. Yeah. And so that’s not where I want to be. Yeah, no, it’s so fascinating because I had a horse who actually just like 4 days ago, he had been going in like one of those fuzzy longers and the owner had another girth, but it was like neoprene.

And I don’t use neoprene in the South because it really rubs the horses. And in the summer there’s so much sweat buildup from behind the armpits that it’s like so nasty. And so, but he had it and I don’t know, he decided to put it on the horse and like immediately the horse starts threatening to rear up. And this is like not, I mean, he’s a quarter horse gelding for Christ sakes. Like they’re not really known for their rearing tendencies.

And I go, I think we should put the other girth back on him. Literally just swapped out the girth and he was like, OK, yeah, I’m good to go forward and do all the things. And he’s like, oh, wow. He’s like really sensitive. And I’m like, well, he’s just really good at communicating, you know, like there.

And only one thing changed. So it’s pretty easy to be like, this is the thing he’s sensitive about. But sometimes I think people almost overlook the that one random change they did or that that when a horse does start to exhibit behavior, they go, Oh my God, my horse is being wild today. Or Oh my God, this happened. But in reality, the horse is just like, you know, this girl through this Boo or this whatever makes me uncomfy, and this is the only way I know how to like tell you without I had a pair.

I have a thoroughbred bear and she’s very spicy and but she never does anything wrong. Like, although she can have an attitude, she’s a very like good and willing partner. And I’m riding her and I go to like ask for a leg yield and she literally stops and turns around and bites my leg and I go, that’s a new one. And my body worker came out and was like, I was worried another horse had ulcers and she goes, Oh no, this one your pepper, the one that I was riding has her ulcer points are like laying up like crazy. And I was like, oh, that makes so much sense.

I did this and she turned around, she bit my leg and she can just have an attitude sometimes. So I thought maybe it was just that and I just didn’t push the topic because she can be funky behind. So I was like, you know, maybe she’s just being bothered. And then I was like, Oh my God, it makes perfect sense that when I applied pressure to the belly, she would turn around and be like, that flippant hurts. And I misread the situation as maybe there’s pain, but it’s from some other thing.

And you know, I just so I think it, it is hard to always understand what they’re saying, but we should always be trying to listen. And so that’s an interesting thing to kind of chat about because not only have you been sort of like a a coach and designer, but you’ve also been an official at competition. What is it like approaching competition from that lens? OK, so while the technical delegate is a pretty involved position at an event, right? We are the ones that have to inspect every single jump, measure every single jump on the cross country that’s topped with base width, height, everything.

Where is it located? We have to make sure the timetable works. We have to make sure, you know, the show jumping is set where it needs to be. The course. We, we don’t design the course, but we have to say, OK, the course is OK to ride the parking area.

We have to make sure the parking area is fine. We have to make sure that there is a safety plan. If I need to land a helicopter, whether you know all those kinds of things, you know, make sure that the ambulance get can get to all points of a cross country course. Or if not, how are we going to move a rider if we need to, are we going to station the horse ambulance? So that’s, that was my job as the technical delegate for for 21 years.

I went up to Level 3. Next would have been FBI. And that’s a tough question, Sam, because I left being an official because I got tired of the courses. I got tired of the standard of riding to some extent. So I longed for the days of the more natural jump, the Stonewall, the sunken roads, the Derby banks, just, you know, the whole material, you know, 2 by fours or you know what you see today.

I just appeal to me. And I didn’t, you know, you sit there for a couple of hours in a golf cart and watch jumps, ride. Horses don’t necessarily jump a lot of that stuff very well. And so it was like, OK, are we are we doing a disservice to the horse here with the, with this kind of fence design in the direction that it’s going? And the this overuse of corners drives me insane.

Like, ask it once, maybe nice, but then let it go, guys. And just the lack of imagine, you know, the imagination went into, oh, how pretty can I make this jump look? Neat. Can I make this jump look And the whole narrowness of things like I always liked it. The steeplechase set apart the men from the boys at the higher levels, right?

A whole advent of bringing in warm bloods. And you know, I think that very much changed the sport away from the thoroughbred, right And let’s be honest, not everybody can ride a thoroughbred. So, so as an official that, you know, different things, you’re affected by different things, and then there’s definitely been a change in the quality of the riding and the and there’s no two ways about it, I’m sorry, but it is, you know, I might say some things that are, let’s say, controversial, but it’s funny, I was just talking with people yesterday and it’s like absolutely agree. You know, we get to a demographic and been there, done it. And you just like, OK, attention to detail, the groundwork in these horses and the coaching.

You know, sometimes I listen to these coaches and go really were, you know, my biggest fans for coaches. I was very fortunate enough to ride with Albert Vaughn, Margaret Todd, Ian Stark. I was sponsored to and I I trained with Torrance Watkins back in the 80. You know, I, I, I was a, you know, I absorbed so much information and was his students, the A level and pony club and not be a student of the horse with, with all the information you’ve got to get. And I did that back in the, in the early 80s when I got my A So anyways, so as an official, I always looked at it from you have to look at it from the point of view of the horse.

And again, having ridden to a higher level, I very much was able to come at fence design and go, OK, how’s the horse going to react to this and having a career, you know, doing the babies off the track and the youngsters and bringing them up the levels. OK, what do I think that horse is going to think when he comes down to a fence like this? And so I used to enjoy that part of it for sure. You know, where the, where are the fences situated? And and are they asking the right question or, you know, you would be shocked though, at at some organizers, you know, because T DS could be different around the world and how they worse the rules.

And I was always one that, you know, what if the fence doesn’t meet the guidelines in the book, then we have to change it somehow. For example, the top width is 2 feet. It can’t be two foot 6. You. Would be shocked at the number of organizers that go well, the last 10 T DS let me use it.

Why won’t you? And it’s like, because you know what, if somebody falls and gets seriously hurt on this jump, we’re liable because it’s not within the spec. So I always found that shocking. That. Some officials were OK whether.

I don’t know why, but it’s like, no, we’re not OK. So we can use it for a higher level if you’d like, but we need to stay in the guidelines. So it’s always shocked at how organizers thought, yeah, let’s just do this. Yeah. So you learned a lot and then you learned, you know, some people just oh, but my horse didn’t quit.

And it’d be I, you know, you’d have 5 different people say they saw what happened and you’re top of the horse. You don’t know what those legs are doing. You don’t know the edge of a bank and the horse step backwards because that right there is your refusal, right? And if you just kick it forward and it steps back again, well, there’s your second refusal. You know, little things like that.

But yeah. And then there’s been great moments. Obviously, I wouldn’t have stayed in the sport as long as I did if I if I didn’t enjoy doing it and being, you know, some of the students and horses that I coached come up the levels and the feeling that you get from a youngster or an older horse for that matter, who just loves doing it. Yeah, no. And and it’s a a privilege to be able to do that with them.

But I just lost the taste for the sport with the skinnies, the corners, all the manufactured jumps. I just moved away from it and said, OK, you know what? I’ve I’ve done my time and it’s time to do the business now. Yeah. No, it is interesting because I was actually watching, I think it was more of an park from there, US Equestrian Open.

And I think that happened in like November. And they had us a corner in the water for the four-star short level. And my mom, who she was kind of like a fox hunter. So she, although she loves horses and knows horses, she doesn’t really know of venting. And I go, yeah, this is like my least favorite question that I see in courses.

And I go, you know, it’s maybe something if it’s out of five star. But like it’s my mom was like, well, why do you hate it so much? And I’m like, because it’s a pure scope question. Like if you have a horse that is quick and nimble and efficient in the ground or across the country or whatever, 9 out of 10 times you’re going to have a run out there because they don’t have, and it was a bee element and they don’t have the scope to get out of the water over this corner, especially if you don’t ride absolutely perfectly. And but these warm bloods who are bred with show jumping lines and you know, all of this, they can wrap around that thing like it is nobody’s problem.

And you know, so but then you watch the course and like 12 combinations have an issue at that one fence. And so it’s, and to me, it’s just not horse friendly, you know, like that to me is you’re asking the horse and it was towards the end of the course. And like to me, it just was not fair. And, and doing this podcast, I’m always kind of looking at who are these course designers and what are they asking from the horses? And we just had, in Aiken, we just had the Grand Prix eventing and arena eventing.

I understand it as a, it’s kind of like a spectator friendly way for people to watch eventing. But I find that the courses tend to be really hard on the horses because it’s a lot of stop, go, turn this way. And the one this year was course designed by Jay Hambley. I think that’s his name. And it was stunning.

It was like someone took an actual cross country course and just condensed it down without all of the stop go sideways. It was just the first four fences got the horses into a rhythm and then there were a couple quick combinations and then you got the horse back into a rhythm. And then there were a couple of combinations got the horse back into a rhythm. And I was like, where is this guy? You know, where did he learn?

Because we need more courses like this in the states because right now we have sometimes I leave the start box and like 15 feet out of the start box is the 1st jump and I go. It’s a minimum distance. I go. We can’t even yeah, I’m like, I may not even have my camera picked up yet on a green horse, you know, and I I just go and then it’s hard. I, I stepped into some coaching in pure dressage, which that has been hard because the horse management and the, their attention to detail in terms of cleanliness is outstanding, but their attention to detail in terms of horse behavior is like horrendous.

And that actually made me step back from sport a bit because I go it’s hard to watch. Oh, and so Sam, that can bring us to a very important point. Now with equestrians, they need to be advocates for their horses. So the coaches and the trainers that tell you you need to wear this bit, you need to wear this gimmick or gadget. These riders need to be empowered and educated to say, no, that’s not in my horses best.

Rather than equestrians being as cliquey, let’s say, or what one rider does, they all do it right. We don’t do that with kids. All you know, it’s your horse. What does your horse need now for the bit for you know, I was always one where the least amount of tack possible if my work needed. He didn’t wear it.

And you can go to jumper shows events and you you look at some of the bits in the tack and go really. Yeah. Right, that’s all I need to know about your riding. Yeah, folks, more people need to be an advocate for the horse and say do not ever do that with my horse again. Yeah, Hey, it doesn’t get more more taxing on the heart than the racing industry.

90% of those don’t want to be there. They don’t care what their breeding is. They don’t care who their mom and dad are, and they need to be treated accordingly. We had two full brothers once. One was a stakes winner makeover 100,000 after he bode attendant at 4:00.

I followed the Tom Iver’s bow tendon book brought him back, but I made sure you know those legs. I checked every day. He told don’t you switch his lead coming down the street. He knows what lead he wants to be on. Full brother was a hunter, right?

Yeah. So just listen. Your worst is always talking, right? They either like what they’re doing or they’re not, or they’re telling you where they’re not happy or they’re sore. And you owe it to them, owe it to them to make them as comfortable as possible.

Yeah, no. And it’s so true. And that’s honestly one of the things that I find endearing about social media is that when riders used to start riding, especially in the United States in some areas, like you’re in a program, you are riding with this one trainer at this one farm, you do everything that the trainer kind of says and there’s not a lot of independence in thought. And I think now because of social media, you can kind of feel that maybe something in your heart isn’t right with the way that situations, whether it be in riding or in handling of horses isn’t quite right. You can go online and be exposed to someone who does only liberty training or someone who does all bitless riding or or someone who does this thing.

And so you can kind of take your horse and say, OK, in my heart, I feel like this is the path you want to go down. And I think not to go down a whole nother rabbit hole, but I think riding is such a unique sport because we we start to have intuition for not just ourselves, right? Like you start to have these feelings, your horse will do something and you’ll kind of feel like, I wonder if it’s this thing. And then you start to really like learn your horse and when you have trainers that you know are a little insecure and worried about you learning something that maybe goes against their belief, I think that’s the first place to start where your trader should not be. Like absolutely no bit less bridle in my barn because blah blah blah.

OK, well now you can actually start advocating and say, all right, well, I I think in my heart this is what’s right. And we now have the ability to go someplace and say, OK, there are other people that do this and they have similar experiences. So yeah, that’s where although I think social media can be hard to navigate, I also think it it offers a lot of good for people that maybe didn’t have exposure to the way things can be or just overall different ways of handling horses. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have to be discernible though.

Like there’s, I’ve seen posts out there and you know, I can’t post or say comments because I’m a business, right, But I’ve certainly seen some posts from people that have actually very large followings saying things that are not true. Yes. And I would hope as horse, you know, if you’re new to the game or you’re looking for guidance, you know, you got to be careful with doing what some of these people say to do. And I just, you know what? I just, you have to be careful.

Yeah, no, for sure. And. But yeah, you’re quite right. There’s lots of great people out there doing some great things with horse. Absolutely.

Yeah, there’s definitely more awareness coming, which is huge, right. To be honest, 20 years ago, nobody was really talking about Gurse now, were they? Yeah, I’ve been talking about them for 11 years now. So I’m a bit of a maverick that way, but not. Yeah, no, you’re quite right.

A lot of good information on horse anatomy, lots of great veteran in type posts. And yeah, absolutely. You’re spot on that way, Sam. So as we sort of start winding this down, what advice or yeah, sort of piece of advice would you have for riders who are sort of looking to better their relationship with their horse? Yeah, wow, that’s a great question.

Again, how to have the best relationship make sure that they’re well in weight in turn out. It starts there. Horses need to be outside a good part of the day out with others. Ideally if they can weigh his great access to lots of good clean forage. I’ve always believed that the grain is the last thing you add get a horse well get the base weight onto them with really good forage.

It’s closer to nature and then add as needed. And you know, one thing I, I would also tell people when you’re training horses, don’t evaluate them daily or even weekly. Minimum three months. OK, that’s where my horses today. I want to see this kind of change or ideally I’d like to see some, some this kind of improvement in three months time.

I always kept a journal, filled it out every day. Whatever horse I worked or schooled or what lesson I gave, I always did a journal of what I thought that horse did well or what I, what I was worried about maybe or oh, there’s a little bit of heat somewhere or whatever. So, yeah, and you’ve got to rule out the tack doesn’t fit saddles, especially up up near, you know, the pommel that they’re not getting pressed down on the wither that you do have the best girth possible. And hey, I get it. My girth works for most horses.

There’s definitely the odd horse said it’s like, you know what, we tried it didn’t work. But hey, just listen, listen to what they’re saying. My my goal with anybody would to be would be to say what’s the, the that what is the softest kind of spit you could get away with or that you’re doing? What is the least amount of tack that you need? Imagine you’re that horse and you’re wearing, you know, 10 different pieces of tack, right?

I wouldn’t want to be that horse personally. As simple as better be kind trying to understand where they’re coming from. Yeah, you know, that would be really some of the the and love them, right? They know everything you think you’re saying to so and appreciate it. You may get to a juncture with a horse and I’ve been there a few times where you go, you know what, you need to go that way on the route.

I need to go that way and be OK with it and say I need to find you the home that you’re looking for because you clearly don’t want to do what I want to. Do and be OK with it. Right. Don’t be resentful of that animal. It’s just like, you know what?

He’s not cut out to be the whatever jumper or the hunt or the high level dressage source wants to go be a broodmare. Great. Well then go do. Yeah, yeah, that’s, that’s excellent. So many good little bits of wisdom.

Thank you so much for joining me. How do people find you? Follow along with what you do, All of that good stuff. They can find me on Facebook and Instagram. I do a tiny bit on TikTok.

I’m not that I’m not into that like I am the you for spreading the word. So tapestry equine products I have the website as well. Tapestry equine products Drop me a line. Linda at Tapestry equine products. I get emails from people all the time.

Linda, here’s my current girls. What do you think? Is it fitting where it needs to be? Should it be higher? It’s like, I’m I’m quite happy.

Let’s get it right the first time or let’s just have a conversation. What’s your horse doing? Tell me about your works. I’ll be at a trade show in Red Deer, AB next month. And I was actually talking to somebody today that says, Linda, all my horses go in your cinches.

Are you going to Red Deer? And I said yeah. And I said make sure you come by and and let’s have a chat. So a big part of it is just tell me about your horse, what’s going on, because sometimes, you know, I’ll give a coaching tidbit or something, or, you know, if it’s a thoroughbred off the track, why does he do this? And I’ll say, well, this is what happens to them at the race tracks.

He’s not letting that one go as quickly you would hope. But yeah. So yeah, I’m easy to find. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for joining me.

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